I’d like to start from the beginning of your story and background. Fashion-wise, you didn’t have a conven- tional resume back then. You wanted to do something together, and it seems like you completed each other with different roles, focusing on a common goal. With all of that said, why fashion?
JULIUS: My background isn’t directly related to fashion, but I did work for some fashion brands before. I can say
my journey in fashion started due to a fascination with
this field. Honestly, I believe that in the beginning we were a bit naive in thinking that the fashion industry was easy
to approach. If you look at it from the point of view of an outsider, a lot of people believe they have an understanding of fashion, they know the basics of creating a fashion brand, but we learned this isn’t true at all.
VICTOR: We tried to build up a universe that incapsulates this idea of industrial elegance we had in mind. This isn’t necessarily 100% fashion-focused, it can be many different things. For instance, we recently came up with a furniture collection together with a company from Milan. So I’d say we started something with a wider ambition, since day one.
Your brand is a 100% self-funded business, and I guess you faced a lot of challenges and hours of hard work. One of the things I experienced and consider one of the biggest lessons I learned is that having a point of view and genuine stubbornness is the key for creativity and self-expression. Do you relate to that?
JULIUS: Limits and dogmas can sharpen the way you think, because you have to think within certain parameters generally related to staying within the budget. So, I think it’s not totally untrue that it can also sharpen your creativi- ty, since you’re forced to think in a very creative way to find solutions. However, I also believe that, if we had a bigger budget, we would’ve come up with some very creative solu- tions as well. Many times, we had to step back and wait for a certain budget to expand our path towards some product categories, putting on pause some ideas we had. It’s a bit of a blessing and a curse to be self-funded. On one hand, it’s great because we don’t have to meet certain numbers and we’re free to invest into the ideas we want to bring ahead. That’s a beautiful mindset. On the other hand, sometimes we feel like we could be advancing faster or we could’ve taken bigger steps if only we had more funds to work with. At the end of the day, I think we priorities being creatively unbound by any sort of institutions or investors. We’ve had a couple of chances to get investors in, but we decided not to go down that path yet, because we want to stay creatively free until we feel like we did everything we could.
VICTOR: What Julius and I have in common is that we’re very targeted. We set our goal and don’t stop until we make it, figuring out all the possible ways to do it. I think we’ve learned a lot up to now and definitely understood that everything is possible. Even if you feel like you don’t have enough resources, there’s still room to find a way or to figure out how to do it yourself. I think that’s the beauty of our company: even if we don’t have that big budget, it’s just about working creatively around that. It creates a culture that everything is possible, if you mix it with the right amount of stubbornness and target mark.
One of the things I found really interesting about your brand is the big list of names you involve in your work. I read this as a sort of manifesto of intents. It also demonstrates the respect you have towards the final result and the expertises you need and want to work with, in order to achieve that goal. Where does this attitude come from?
JULIUS: Coming from an advertising background myself, where your work is never or hardly credited, I feel like there’s a sort of respect due to the credit everyone who’s involved in the process gets. Moreover, a big part of Heliot Emil’s concept is also to promote innovation and stand for innovators on a broader scale. We try as much as possible to collaborate with people that are pushing their vision. We could call them collaborations, but honestly, it’s more like working together with the same purpose in mind. I feel that recently the word ‘collaboration’ has come along with the bad reputation of people working on a product in order to sell more, but that’s not the way we like to collaborate. We want, for instance, to work with some new technologies and combine them together with our creativity, in order to make something outside the box. We start a conversation with really small realities most of the time, and they’re really excited to work with a brand like us. From our side, we’re really happy and pleased to work with those partners, because these people spend their whole life studying one particular thing to become experts in their field. Hence, we can gain some knowledge from them. It’s not necessary to look at people as manufactures, but to look at them as collaborators.
VICTOR: We love to use the brand as a platform to com- municate our beliefs and way of working. Everything that goes underneath this umbrella called industrial elegance is something we like to include and underline at its best. As I was explaining before, we love to do that not only in fashion, but also in music, technology, and so on. We love to inspire people around the world with what we do.
This idea of having so many people around your work made me think on a bigger scale. I was amused by the versatile idea of involving all the senses for your SS23 ‘Primal Substance’ collection and the connection with Bill Viola’s work ‘Inverted Birth’. To me, it seems like Heliot Emil has a factory or workshop place attitude, if you prefer. So, in which formula do you see your work evolving into something multidisciplinary, including a larger and different variation of products one day?
JULIUS: Ultimately, our goal is for the brand to get bigger than us and for the foundations to create a more institutional attitude, something people can aspire to be a part of. One of the ways is by highlighting that there’s more than just one way to stimulate people, for instance involving all the senses. For us, it’s just about promoting an idea or something that goes outside the conventional way of doing things, making people think differently than before. The ultimate goal is to become an institution of this mindset and promote creativity in these terms.
Talking about your aesthetics and your ‘Industrial Elegance’, I can see a sense of coherence embracing all your products and the overall communication strategy you follow. Technology is a key aspect of your work, as well as 3D print, Artificial Intelligence and machines in general. It seems like you use technology as a way to push boundaries. So, I was wondering, which role do humans play in this process?
JULIUS: The interesting part is when you take something that’s extremely organic and mix it with something that’s happened for the audience. For instance, we can see it now with the interest people have in this A.I.- generated prod- ucts. We have this attraction for something that looks very humanly created, but is actually designed by a computer, which is kind of ironic, because we reach that stage where a computer can generate an image that’s sharper than what we can see with our eyes. I recently saw that there was an A.I.-generated podcast between Joe Rogan and Steve Jobs. Basically, they took all the Steve Job’s interviews and speeches together with the Joe Rogan’s podcasts, and they made an A.I.-generated conversation between them. Once you start making something simple and human like a conversation using A.I., you have the interesting melting pot people are looking for.
VICTOR: If we look at a timing perspective of this, all A.I. generated universe we have to consider it as something that’s growing fast. We already sort of accepted that’s com- puters are faster in calculating numbers and better than us on certain technical things, but I think this second genera- tion of A.I. is actually becoming more creative than human beings canbe. This is something that we haven’t accepted yet. We only have accepted the first stage and I think the next ten years are going to be very interesting in seeing the computer and A.I. taking over the creative world in generating campaigns, designs, music and so on.
Looking at the behind-the-scenes and the consequent result of your work, the first thing that came up to my mind was the Kraftwerk and the revolution they made into sound, stage shows and image. They made a giant mark through experimentation and, I’d say, style too. What’s the imprint you want Heliot Emil to make?
JULIUS: For sure, the vision and general idea is to leave some mark behind. We want to be constantly aware of all the innovations happening in the entire word, always trying to capture the best ones and venture them all through the fashion industry as a platform to spread certain unseen innovations. We also want to try and give value to people that work on very cool projects, since we’re not the only ones here who think outside the box. This is the imprint we want to leave behind us.
VICTOR: We’d like to have an influence on the community we’re trying to build every day. One of the biggest goals, for us, is to come up with new technologies and ways of thinking. So, it’s all about inspiring people from all around the world, giving them new inputs and possibilities. We’d like to nurture people’s minds, stimulating them with inputs and making them dream of doing the very same in their own way and, of course, in their own field of interest.
Still talking about imprints but in a different way, can you tell me about something, or someone, that left a big mark on you that you now see in yourself today?
JULIUS: Victor and I impressed each other somehow. We always had this ambition of showing to the other what we can do, finding our own direction into the brand, supporting and leaving some kind of an imprint on each other constantly. Our parents also played a big role in that, since we were really young. They taught us nothing is unachievable or impossible if you want to do it. We come from a humble background, and our parents have always been free spirits. We were lucky enough to travel around the world: for example, they took us out of school and put us on home school, bought a van and cross-tracked western Australia for many months. This was something they had in mind for us, and I think it left a huge imprint on our mindset. We grew up with the desire of exploring and always going further. It opened up our minds by teaching us there was more to the world than just what we generally see every day.
VICTOR: Our background and, more in general, this unconventional way of growing up gave us a lot of self-esteem and social skills: you understand that you can just talk to anyone in each and every country. Of course, this is so- mething great that I’m thankful for and left a huge imprint on us. Moreover, I personally had a relationship with Virgil Abloh for many years. We used to work together at Hood By Air, and his mindset was extremely unique and aspirational. The ‘you can do it too’ motto made a big impression on me. Since I’d been following his journey from the early days, I think he paved the way for a lot of people to think a bit more outside the box than what the fashion industry encapsulates. Moreover, thanks to him, people understood that it’s not just about people who come from certain schools or have a certain background, as it’s about ambition, devotion and dreams. He had some extremely aspirational thoughts on how to construct an entire universe around his brand. He left a huge impression on me, as well as on the entire fashion industry, that’s still thankfully remarking and remembering all the amazing things he did and thoughts he gave voice to.
I was wondering, as a kid what was your dream job?
Honestly, I don’t have a clear memory of that. I think my wish was to become a professional football player one day. I know it sounds crazy looking at me today, but I played football for many years and one of my relatives used to play in the major leagues. So, rather than being my dream, that was probably my idea, since I used to play football all day long.
When and what made you connect to writing music?
My first record session took place when I was 13, however I used to write down my music-related ideas before then. One day I recorded for the first time at a friend’s of mine, it was just for fun. He wasn’t into music production, but luckily I was and am still living in an era where it’s enough to have a computer and microphone to make a song. It started as a joke, reading and jamming to my words. It was a lightening strike. It could’ve been a momentary fascination, but it lasted. Everything happened in an ultra spontaneous way.
More than a year ago, your album ‘Fallirò’ (in English ‘I’ll Fail’, E.D.) was released. First of all, because it was quite a while ago, I’d like to ponder over the title. I was taught that it’s important to fail, because it teaches you how much you care about something and what your true beliefs are. Talking about failure, what do they represent for you?
Failure, to me, is the end of something. However, if someone doesn’t stop - and I personally hope I’ll never stop - they can also be the beginning of a new chapter. Generally speaking, we tend to praise success and frown upon failures. To me, failures are fascinating. Through them, you can see the real essence of a person, because the reaction you have, represents who you truly are.
It’s like if you were getting rid of everything through failure. Absolutely, you stay there with yourself making a decision. From ‘Fallirò’ (in English ‘I’ll Fail’, E.D.) up to now, what’s changed?
Many things have changed. First of all music turned into my job, and this is already quite a big thing. Music is my entire life, as I literally don’t have anything else. I started making music, because I didn’t have anything to loose. I wasn’t studying, and I couldn’t find a job that truly gave me motivation, so I thought I might as well give music a try for real. I really am living my dream.
Instead, what stayed the same?
My approach to song-making didn’t change, I believe. Songs still come to me in a natural way. Obviously I’m more aware of what I’m doing thanks to experience, and the whole process is more thoughtful now. However, I can still recognise my urge. I’m constantly searching for improvement, and I hope people will notice how much I’ve worked on music for my new album ‘Mostro’ (in English ‘Monster’, E.D.) and the big step I took, I hope (Laughs, E.D.). So, I’d say my attitude stayed the same, what changed is the context, the level of experience and my consciousness.
Failure generally creates a reaction. I think your song ‘La città che odi’ (in English ‘The City You Hate’, E.D.), with which you won ‘Sanremo Giovani’, is proof of that. What does it mean when you say that you stayed here even with lots of unhappiness, when you don’t need anyone, but somehow despite that the house feels empty without that someone?
That sentence, for me, is linked to an emotional depend- ency, as well as the moment when I detached myself. I detached myself more from the dependency than the person itself, because you’ll detach yourself from someone inevitably, but it’s hard to abandon the feeling of dragging out that dependency. That sentence is a manifesto of personal independency, with a touch of revenge: it’s like a small finest hour to me, saying to that person: ‘I don’t need anybody’. However it’s not true that I don’t need anybody, and that’s the reason why I also say: ‘But the house is emp- ty without you’. In short my mind is a mess, and my songs are proof of that (Laughs, E.D.).
This mess sounds really human to me, instead. What I find truly beautiful is that you decided to use the verb ‘to stay’. Nowadays people are easily leaving, not just physically or emotionally: they don’t stay over things, they don’t pay attention and aren’t focused.
I’m staying for myself, and I believe it’s important to remind oneself.
I don’t know what it means to be a well-known person, but I believe it’s something that has to do with being aware of the responsibilities you have towards your audi- ence, their dreams and the way they see you. It must be hard to constantly handle it with care. We all have admiration for someone, and sometimes that feeling makes us see that person through a lens, probably as an idol. How do you cope with the idea that outside there’s probably someone who’s idolising your persona right now?
As long as I can, I try not to think about it. In my opin- ion, every artist or celebrity should avoid that thought. Obviously, I feel a responsibility towards my audience and the few who are idolising me, but my way of being doesn’t change because of that. I always try to be myself, especially because that idea doesn’t interest me. I’m fond of people, not fame. The fame part is a bit hard for me, and I hope it’ll get harder and harder, since it’d mean that I’m doing my job in the right way. However, I miss not having any pressure on that level.
And what about you, do you have any idols?
I have many, I’m probably changing them at least three times per year. However, I do have some solid ones. As to the Italian panorama, I’d say Vasco Rossi. Moving to the UK and U.S., David Bowie and Frank Ocean. They’re really different one from the other, something that truly represents me.
And outside the music industry?
Probably, Luigi Ghirri. I like the fact that he was able to frame love without superstructures, that you can find love in a desolate wintry landscape for instance. I like the way he described the essence of things.
When I listened to your single ‘I Bambini’ (in English ‘The Kids’, E.D.), I immediately associated it with a punk statement on the loss of innocence: ‘Who killed Bambi? Bambi is the innocence in all of us!’. For you, who killed Bambi?
I see all of us as tanks of endurance, and the greatest limit is the idea of having limits. If your tank is full, you feel the urge to do something against who, or what, flipped the tank. You need to explode. I think the kids I’m referring to got close to the line, so they asked themselves a few questions and discussed together, in order to feel free and much more true to their own nature. Maybe, their plan would’ve been a failure, but they still tried to know themselves better and see what would’ve happened. So, I think being trapped by pre-made limits could kill innocence somehow.
When this interview will be out on the shelves, you’ll have lived and probably digested the Sanremo experience. If you could write a wish for yourself that you’re going to re-read after Sanremo, what would you write?
I’d write two things, probably: from my instinctive side, I’d wish myself to have fun. From my rational side, I’d wish myself to realize how important the step I’m taking, is. However, above all I’d tell myself to enjoy that stage, because if I’m having fun, probably the audience will have fun too.
Do you think it helped you, in terms of emotions, to have won Sanremo giovani?
Not at all. I’m gaining experience and awareness, but every time feels like the first.
In what way would you like to leave a sign behind you?
For the moment, I’d like to be the sign myself with music being my tool, since it’s the main focus for me. I truly want to make awesome songs, that’ll get recognition on a long-term scale. Today, that’s the sign I’d like to imprint, because this is all I have: music. Maybe, tomorrow I’ll tell you gardening, the day after tomorrow cinema, who knows.
I’m sure you will, because you’re already making beautiful songs.
I want them to be more beautiful, more and more.
